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On 11/24/2018 at 10:39 PM, Griff's Consortium said:

Acceptability as actual fiat is also a concern for Gridcoin to continue.

It would be nice if somehow, payments could be accepted with GRC. Possibly online payments directly with GRC for things like electric bills. you would think of all the cryptocurrency out there, science based mining would allow this incentive to use it with power and utility bills. 
A petition to the larger whitelisted programs like SETI, WCG, LHC, DHEP, ECT, might push them to ask for electric companies to accept GRC exclusively and directly for payments.

 

That's a start.

The value would grow as many other coins are no longer minable for profit.

Then others who wish to start turning a profit from mining again will look to GRC and the flood would happen to value.

 

I think you both may be onto something significant here.

 

I personally never envisioned using GRC to buy bread at the grocery store, nor as a competitor to BitCoin.  The original story behind Gridcoin however, was that it was an improvement on Bitcoin because the work it did (DPoR) was actually useful compared to Bitcoins pointless hashing.

 

But I think after four years, it's reasonable to ask the question "What is the best fit for GRC going forward?"  Currently we're all more or less donating our computer time, but that may not be true forever.  I could easily imagine research projects which receive grant money choosing a GRC-funded resource over, say, AWS.  Have you looked at their prices?  Almost $1/hr for a decent single machine!

 

So I recommend, as we said in the 60s, that we "Keep the Baby, Faith".  Meanwhile I'd like to hear from Management, in tandem with the upcoming marketing push,

WHY newcomers should invest in GRC.  What is our sales vector?

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WARNING -- EDITORIAL ONLY (not to be taken as fact).

 

Some of you will remember back when Moo Wrapper was "de-whitelisted" for being a silly project, and the ensuing controversy that caused for ALL projects.  One big benefit that came out of it was I think we realized, as a community, that we'd likely never agree on which projects were "worthwhile" so we got ourselves out of the business of requiring that as a condition of white-listing.  I completely agree with that decision.  To have done anything else (responsibly) would have required the equivalent of an academic peer review, which would have been a major distraction from our primary mission.

 

But I would suggest, FOR INTEREST ONLY, that not all science, and in particular not all BOINC projects are created equal.  Some are very likely a total waste of time--and I'm actually being generous in that assessment.  Since this is a highly charged topic, I won't name the particular projects which come to mind, but rather describe the features of a pointless project:

 

1)  It has zero chance of success (No, not SETI).

2)  It cannot ever qualify as a formal proof of what it seeks.

3)  It seeks "certain extreme values" while not being comprehensive.

4)  The experimental result it seeks can more easily be derived analytically.

 

So which projects qualify as a likely waste of time?  I don't mean to be mysterious, but if you've pick the same four I did, I'm prepared to be impressed.

Should we boycott these as a community?  Not at all.  The reason we're all here (I think) is to show that a concurrency need not be based on useless hashing.

To that end, it doesn't matter which BOINC projects we crunch.  It would be nice if they were all useful, but not strictly necessary.

 

I wrote this piece ONLY to point out that "computational science" is a very small part of science overall, and that people unfamiliar with complex analysis

are more likely to seek answers from exhaustive computation whether its the best way or not.  That's all.

 

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On 11/25/2018 at 5:39 AM, Griff's Consortium said:

Acceptability as actual fiat is also a concern for Gridcoin to continue.

It would be nice if somehow, payments could be accepted with GRC. Possibly online payments directly with GRC for things like electric bills. you would think of all the cryptocurrency out there, science based mining would allow this incentive to use it with power and utility bills. 
A petition to the larger whitelisted programs like SETI, WCG, LHC, DHEP, ECT, might push them to ask for electric companies to accept GRC exclusively and directly for payments.

 

That's a start.

The value would grow as many other coins are no longer minable for profit.

Then others who wish to start turning a profit from mining again will look to GRC and the flood would happen to value.

This might backfire  , as it would create more sale orders and panic sale situations as the electricity companies would really just sell the GRC in bulk and drive the market down, the whole idea of an economy around GRC is for GRC to be necessary to somebody as in to solve a certain problem for them not be forced upon them.

   I believe having a way to have projects reward contributors with GRC  bonuses to attract more compute power on their side is probably our best bet, GRC would not be a coin but it would be a commodity, basically a standard for compute power exchange, and this demand could be extended outside BOINC maybe or help also BOINC attract private projects, not ideal probably in the vision of the founders of GRC or BOINC but it is pretty much the only way to create an economy around GRC in my vision.

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On 11/29/2018 at 4:46 AM, crhro said:

I believe having a way to have projects reward contributors with GRC  bonuses to attract more compute power on their side is probably our best bet, GRC would not be a coin but it would be a commodity, basically a standard for compute power exchange, and this demand could be extended outside BOINC maybe or help also BOINC attract private projects, not ideal probably in the vision of the founders of GRC or BOINC but it is pretty much the only way to create an economy around GRC in my vision.

 

You make a good point.  For the last 15 years, BOINC has been pretty much the only game in town for personal PC owners.

Even with that advantage, I'm surprised that there aren't hundreds or thousands of projects salivating to use it.  [Research grant money is typically very tight.]

 

But I don't see why GRC must be tied permanently to non-profit computing.  BOINC did exactly what it should have done.  It paved the way for massively distributed computing and solved most of the "thorny issues" along the way.  These were technical challenges, not related to whether BOINC was paid, unpaid, donated, volunteered or subsidized.

 

Therefore I *think* GRC is free to adapt itself to expansion of the Compute-as-a-Service demand when that market broadens.

But I don't pretend to speak officially for Gridcoin.  This view is my own.

 

-- Dave

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BTW, PrimeGrid contributions from Gridcoin team have taken the expected Nosedive.  Too bad they couldn't be bothered to work with us.

 

image.png.aa8d50c4e42db644d38d5e4be4b65ff9.png

Edited by dblanch256

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On 11/30/2018 at 1:07 PM, dblanch256 said:

 

You make a good point.  For the last 15 years, BOINC has been pretty much the only game in town for personal PC owners.

Even with that advantage, I'm surprised that there aren't hundreds or thousands of projects salivating to use it.  [Research grant money is typically very tight.]

 

But I don't see why GRC must be tied permanently to non-profit computing.  BOINC did exactly what it should have done.  It paved the way for massively distributed computing and solved most of the "thorny issues" along the way.  These were technical challenges, not related to whether BOINC was paid, unpaid, donated, volunteered or subsidized.

 

Therefore I *think* GRC is free to adapt itself to expansion of the Compute-as-a-Service demand when that market broadens.

But I don't pretend to speak officially for Gridcoin.  This view is my own.

 

-- Dave

Only problem is ,time is short since a few projects are already working on this, so if this is not decided and implemented soon GridCoin might become just a BOINC badge, as others would already be there and doing just this. ( Golem for example).

It is also rather not reassuring that we are 3 people here talking for some time now and nobody from the main team even threw is a response, makes me worry a bit .

Edited by crhro

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Two things need to happen to prevent GRC from collapsing.

 

1. Inflation control. Gridcoin has a lot of coins in circulation. With no mechanism to limit emissions, coin supply will grow indefinitely, making each coin worth less until they're worthless. Maybe burn transaction fees like PIVX does?

 

2. Utility. GRC has little use outside of staking and selling (staking now requiring more coins due to CBR pushing difficulty up). What can we buy with GRC other than crypto?

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4 hours ago, suncrunch said:

Two things need to happen to prevent GRC from collapsing.

 

1. Inflation control. Gridcoin has a lot of coins in circulation. With no mechanism to limit emissions, coin supply will grow indefinitely, making each coin worth less until they're worthless. Maybe burn transaction fees like PIVX does?

 

2. Utility. GRC has little use outside of staking and selling (staking now requiring more coins due to CBR pushing difficulty up). What can we buy with GRC other than crypto?

Correct on all points.

With no defined limits on new Gridcoin amounts, each new coin earned depletes the values. At least the other coins figured this out. I'm surprised there is any value, at all to Gridcoin.

There needs to be a mechanism for limit.

Hence we offen destroy old currency in circulation and set limits on minting it.

 

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Am 3.12.2018 um 23:17 schrieb Griff's Consortium:

Correct on all points.

With no defined limits on new Gridcoin amounts, each new coin earned depletes the values. At least the other coins figured this out. I'm surprised there is any value, at all to Gridcoin.

There needs to be a mechanism for limit.

Hence we offen destroy old currency in circulation and set limits on minting it.

 

 

Get more people using it, and the inlfation thing is uninteresting, far outwighted. 

 

Go! Start it! Get more people in! What are you waiting for?


Gridcoin is cool! It helps Humanity, too!

 

Warning: politically interested person. 

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Am I reading this correctly, that out of 22 white-listed projects only 4 provide both GRC credit and tasks for NVidia GPU?

 

image.png.57a93b93382d85b92afd505cd9edbd28.png

 

Edited by dblanch256

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