18,957 posts in this topic

 

 

 

I also think we should have a look into this coin split BUT dc7d the pool did not stake because I was assuming an auto-unlock. Which was wrong. So it was just not unlocked to stake.

Okay, I only made an "assumption", lol

But: Check the payment history and you can see that pos is getting smaller and smaller, doesn't it?

 

It is getting smaller because of the coin split. Splitted coins generate less POS but the coins that did NOT stake accrue more coinage. The question is whether this will average out. I believe so but we should have an eye on it.

 

Yes, that's right! The problem is, you get more and more coins that do not stake because of we can only generate 1 block each 90 seconds.

 

I know what your problem is. You expect every split chunk of coins to stake alone. Thats wrong according to Rob. More than one of those chunks CAN stake together to get 10% of a balance of one address in a wallet.

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I think difficulty would be trending to 0 if that was the case. If I have some time tomorrow I'll set up some queries and look at inflation again but I doubt there are any problems. Rob is right about the fact that over that short of a period inflation will be different depending on how many are keeping thier wallets open for stake. Since you don't lose any stake age for not staking and we are on the last reward level some big balances may have gone "cold" for storage. This would cause a lower inflation rate you are reporting. This is something I would like to see addressed at some point you shouldn't be able to take your stake off line indefinitely without a penalty of some kind, that is a security concern we need people willing to stake regularly.

 

 

With respect, I don't know why everyone here makes the assumption that this significant decreasing is only the cause of not staking big wallets? Evidence?

I checked the behaviour of my wallet and I can also see the decreasing pos of the pool, so for me that are hard facts, not only assumptions.

 

edit: You are right about the security concern that people have to stake regularly, Thanks for addressing this!

 

edit2: Well, also Thanks for setting up some queries!

Edited by dc7d

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I know what your problem is. You expect every split chunk of coins to stake alone. Thats wrong according to Rob. More than one of those chunks CAN stake together to get 10% of a balance of one address in a wallet.

 

Hm, okay, but is it really like that? Do they really stake together?

And then, why splitting the coins?

And why this downwarding trend?

And why this decreasing pos per block in my wallet and also in your pool?

 

Edited by dc7d

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@dc7d
I am running my investor wallet now with stakeall=true and see whether more than one chunk stakes in one block. I will report as soon as I see something.
Coin splitting is supposed to keep the staking process smooth, especially for low balance nodes that would, with the assumption of ONE coin chunk, not be able to stake 16 hours once ALL coins staked together.
I suppose the downwarding trend is because most of the coins are still splitting and not staking together yet. Thats the same answer to your last question.

 

But you are right, we should monitor that. RTM proposed to monitor inflation by a tool he will provide. We can see everything there then. :)

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@dc7d

I am running my investor wallet now with stakeall=true and see whether more than one chunk stakes in one block. I will report as soon as I see something.

Coin splitting is supposed to keep the staking process smooth, especially for low balance nodes that would, with the assumption of ONE coin chunk, not be able to stake 16 hours once ALL coins staked together.

I suppose the downwarding trend is because most of the coins are still splitting and not staking together yet. Thats the same answer to your last question.

 

But you are right, we should monitor that. RTM proposed to monitor inflation by a tool he will provide. We can see everything there then. :)

stakeall=true is only testnet, isn't it?

I tried it in testnet, but I can't see any different behaviour.

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I also think we should have a look into this coin split BUT dc7d the pool did not stake because I was assuming an auto-unlock. Which was wrong. So it was just not unlocked to stake.

Okay, I only made an "assumption", lol

But: Check the payment history and you can see that pos is getting smaller and smaller, doesn't it?

I think difficulty would be trending to 0 if that was the case. If I have some time tomorrow I'll set up some queries and look at inflation again but I doubt there are any problems. Rob is right about the fact that over that short of a period inflation will be different depending on how many are keeping thier wallets open for stake. Since you don't lose any stake age for not staking and we are on the last reward level some big balances may have gone "cold" for storage. This would cause a lower inflation rate you are reporting. This is something I would like to see addressed at some point you shouldn't be able to take your stake off line indefinitely without a penalty of some kind, that is a security concern we need people willing to stake regularly.

 

previously an advertisement from my mobile phone overlords, now just an obnoxious message to let you know I posted this from my mobile.

Solarcoin did Proof of Stake Time to adjust the reward based on continous staking versus intermittent, Im not a programmer so cant explain how it works but it may be a concept option to address non participating wallets.

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I also think we should have a look into this coin split BUT dc7d the pool did not stake because I was assuming an auto-unlock. Which was wrong. So it was just not unlocked to stake.

Okay, I only made an "assumption", lol

But: Check the payment history and you can see that pos is getting smaller and smaller, doesn't it?

 

It is getting smaller because of the coin split. Splitted coins generate less POS but the coins that did NOT stake accrue more coinage. The question is whether this will average out. I believe so but we should have an eye on it.

 

Yes, that's right! The problem is, you get more and more coins that do not stake because of we can only generate 1 block each 90 seconds.

 

I know what your problem is. You expect every split chunk of coins to stake alone. Thats wrong according to Rob. More than one of those chunks CAN stake together to get 10% of a balance of one address in a wallet.

 

 

Quez, starting a investor now wont give you an answer now, because the coins need time to split down.

My investor has gone 100% - 50% - 25% - 12,5% - 6,25% but the split did no occure at every stake (the wallet was down between, may be a reason). Farther down I cannot say bc I still dont know how to get a csv out of the transactions.

 

In the last 10 blocks of my 110K research wallet I did not have one stake larger then 1000GRC, the average is about 500GRC and not it gets hard to say if the split goes on because of the added PoR payments.

It still means I would need several hundred blocks just to get my interest on ONE node, and that is a fact, Rob.

btw I put the stakeall lin in config (hopefully written right) but that didnt change anything. Another 17GRC stake even.

 


Gridcoin is cool! It helps Humanity, too!

 

Warning: politically interested person. 

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Sometimes... I'm wondering if you guys actually know what POS is.... I wanted to write something about it... but.....

 

Anyway, I did a quick google and found this so at least the words are not from me.

 

Read (or not).

 

https://archsupport.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/5000008151

 

PS. dc7d, I didn't really read all you post, but if you're moving coins with coin control, you lose coinage, thus...... less interest. Go figure.

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Gridcoin - Paving the Way Towards a Better Tomorrow

GRC: SJgRQKZp19AG49bPwmoJyWQCHpd6CfTzKg || BTC: 13pTr3qXWDvycRLBPgt3bJzJst4ju46CGS

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Sometimes... I'm wondering if you guys actually know what POS is.... I wanted to write something about it... but.....

 

Anyway, I did a quick google and found this so at least the words are not from me.

 

Read (or not).

 

https://archsupport.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/5000008151

 

PS. dc7d, I didn't really read all you post, but if you're moving coins with coin control, you lose coinage, thus...... less interest. Go figure.

Thanks for the link. There it stands:

"As the inputs get split, you'll stake more often, but less amount per time."

The community as a whole can not stake more often, because of the 90 seconds. We only have about 900 blocks a day. That's the limit. 

Maybe big bagholders can stake more often, but small amounts are getting smaller and stake less often, not more often.

 

Sep, yes of course I know that I loose a bit coinage (really not much, I use Coin Control in a meaningful way), but that's nothing beside when I let it split into smallest amounts and I get nothing... 

Well I get more than 0.42%...

 

I wonder how much everybody here has got the last 10 days? So please, does everybody here gets the whole 1.5%? Maybe that would be the most helpful thing here to post ... I get slightly less than 1.5%.

 

edit: Does anybody track the Net Weight? It is increasing more and more. I'm not absolutely sure but I think that's also an effect of the coin split.

Edited by dc7d

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Sometimes... I'm wondering if you guys actually know what POS is.... I wanted to write something about it... but.....

 

Anyway, I did a quick google and found this so at least the words are not from me.

 

Read (or not).

 

https://archsupport.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/topics/5000008151

 

PS. dc7d, I didn't really read all you post, but if you're moving coins with coin control, you lose coinage, thus...... less interest. Go figure.

Thanks for the link. There it stands:

"As the inputs get split, you'll stake more often, but less amount per time."

The community as a whole can not stake more often, because of the 90 seconds. We only have about 900 blocks a day. That's the limit. 

Maybe big bagholders can stake more often, but small amounts are getting smaller and stake less often, not more often.

 

Sep, yes of course I know that I loose a bit coinage (really not much, I use Coin Control in a meaningful way), but that's nothing beside when I let it split into smallest amounts and I get nothing... 

Well I get more than 0.42%...

 

I wonder how much everybody here has got the last 10 days? So please, does everybody here gets the whole 1.5%? Maybe that would be the most helpful thing here to post ... I get slightly less than 1.5%.

 

 

Do you selective read?

 

"Q: I've noticed the amount I stake decreases as time passes. How can I improve my staking?

 

A: The amount you stake is based on two things. The amount of coins in the input and the amount of time since those coins last staked. Over time, as you stake and your inputs get broken up in half you will generally get smaller and smaller amounts as a reward. However, when one does stake, you will get the appropriate amount of interest for the amount of coinage that input has.

 

Q: Well, I want big stakes, so I'm going to send my coins back to myself so they are all in one input again.

 

A: if you send all your coins back to yourself in a big block, you'll get one input, but you LOSE ALL YOUR COIN AGE. it starts over. You might look like you are getting more, but you're not really not. You're just killing your potential to get the full amount of interest you deserve."


Gridcoin - Paving the Way Towards a Better Tomorrow

GRC: SJgRQKZp19AG49bPwmoJyWQCHpd6CfTzKg || BTC: 13pTr3qXWDvycRLBPgt3bJzJst4ju46CGS

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Do you selective read?

 

"Q: I've noticed the amount I stake decreases as time passes. How can I improve my staking?

 

A: The amount you stake is based on two things. The amount of coins in the input and the amount of time since those coins last staked. Over time, as you stake and your inputs get broken up in half you will generally get smaller and smaller amounts as a reward. However, when one does stake, you will get the appropriate amount of interest for the amount of coinage that input has.

 

Q: Well, I want big stakes, so I'm going to send my coins back to myself so they are all in one input again.

 

A: if you send all your coins back to yourself in a big block, you'll get one input, but you LOSE ALL YOUR COIN AGE. it starts over. You might look like you are getting more, but you're not really not. You're just killing your potential to get the full amount of interest you deserve."

 

 

"will generally get smaller and smaller amounts as a reward." - nothing to say

 

"you will get the appropriate amount of interest for the amount of coinage that input has." - But that input is only half of the last input...

 

"As the inputs get split, you'll stake more often, but less amount per time." - more often is only possible for big amounts - net weight is increasing

 

edit: Yes I said that I know that I loose coinage, but not much when I only send the coins which have small coinage anyway.

Edited by dc7d

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I know English is not your native language.. but did you actually read and understand.... instead of just fudding?

 

I'm going to stop responding......


Gridcoin - Paving the Way Towards a Better Tomorrow

GRC: SJgRQKZp19AG49bPwmoJyWQCHpd6CfTzKg || BTC: 13pTr3qXWDvycRLBPgt3bJzJst4ju46CGS

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Regarding coin split: Before we start the next shitstorm in the one or the other direction which might become personal, lets wait for some facts that RTM volunteered to show us - the interest production in the whole chain. As we will be able to see, the interest/inflation decreases or stays the same.

 

LennStar and dc7d: If I get it right, the 10% rule to stake coins is for ONE ADDRESS, not for the whole wallet. So if I have a wallet with 1 mio GRC it will stake ~100k GRC at a time if it has just one address and 10k at a time if it has 10x100k GRC addresses. LennStar maybe your 17 GRC stakes come from an address that has 170 GRC balance? Have a look in the coin control feature.

I will let my investor node run the next 14 days and report what I see. For now, I just see the coin split is working but the 200k GRC address I have there for example only staked 2 times. So it is down to 100k GRC + 2x 50k GRC. Which means ANY stake of that address will stake more than 10% of its balance at the moment. IF it will stake less than 20k GRC at the time and continues to split, we MIGHT have a problem, the problem dc7d and LennStar are describing.

If all works as expected, I suggest we put the target amount to stake to 50% of the eligible balance that CAN stake at the moment. So if I have 100 GRC on an address 50 will try to stake, if the next stake comes within 16 hours, 25 will stake and so on. We can avoid to create too many coin splits that way.

 

Quez
p.s. if I talk nonsense, please let me know (@ Rob) :)

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I know English is not your native language.. but did you actually read and understand.... instead of just fudding?

 

I'm going to stop responding......

Sep please don't call me that I'm just fudding... 

If I'm wrong, then please help me and explain what I don't understand and stop being condescending.

Please post something helpful, for example how much % interest do you get?

Edited by dc7d

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